Episode 10: Lingering eyes

Is it normal for your husband or wife to look at someone else? How long is too long? Is it ok to be hurt by it? Are you crazy for feeling jealous? Is it too much and would it be wrong to ask them to stop? Find out what the psychologist says this means for your marriage. Jessica addresses what is healthy and what is crossing boundaries. How to set your boundaries and stick by them and when you can breathe and not worry about it and how to keep their eye on only you! 

Episode Transcript 

This is the confident marriage podcast. And I am not your host, Jessica. Rather, this is her husband. Sean, my wife has asked me to join her and weigh in on this week's topic on a very special episode of the confident marriage. But now let me turn it over to the one. You've all been waiting for. My beautiful, talented and knowledgeable wife, Jessica. 

Jessica: [00:01:02] This is your host, Jessica. Thank you, honey. For the introduction. I'm very excited about today's episode. I can't wait to jump in, but first some house cleaning business, my new website is live and if you guys haven't checked it out, I would love it. For you guys to go on there, let me know what you think. 

There's tons of resources, www.theconfidentmarriage.com there's books on there with links to Amazon. So you guys just can put it in your cart and purchase it. I hope you all check it out and take advantage of the many, many, many hours. I have spent reading to bring you guys some good resources. So take a look. 

I do have an Instagram page still. I got myself kicked off. Don't ask. Oops. No. I'll okay. So I'll tell you guys, I got myself locked out of Instagram because some of my content was sexually explicit. Like the, the porn episode that I did. So, uh, they locked me out and I had to do a whole new Instagram page. 

So I'm back up and running. So if you go onto my website, all the links to my social media are there, if you were. Friends with me on Instagram. You'll have to go back and re follow me. Uh, but that's all on my website. Once again, www.theconfidentmarriage.com. So every episode I like to do a shout out to my listeners. 

I'm always super grateful for all of you guys. Even more support and suggestions are rolling in on the things that you guys want to hear. So the next couple episodes have been planned out for me. Thank you guys. I've got some really great content coming, but without much further ado, here we go. This is episode. 

Um, no, it's not nine it's 10. Should I cut that or should I leave it?  

Sean: [00:03:01] No. Now you should leave it because you've already said all this stuff, right? Just leave it in. Now  

Jessica: [00:03:04] we told you it was going to be a special edition or that editor. This is episode 10, and we're going to be talking about lingering eyes. 

How far is too far and how to pull your spouse and yourself back in a healthy and positive way. So talking about looking at some hotties men and women, I got to say I was a bit nervous about this episode because the diversity of opinions about the subject are much broader than even porn. That's pretty crazy, but I get it because I'm torn on it as well. 

On one hand, we're all people, we're sexual creatures and we're pretty drawn to shiny, nice new things. Maybe it's jewelry on a new pretty car, or even a good looking person walking down the street versus purses. I love purses, but when it's in your face, it's kind of hard not to notice like the coach outlet at our local outlet stores. 

But it's impossible actually. And we don't have control over our knee jerk thoughts. They just kind of happen. But then what about after that moment is really what I'm trying to get to here. When is the waters getting a little murky? Once we start down that path of staring smiling, I am body  or looking over and over again, turning our head to maybe get a better look. 

This is where we cross the line from normal human behavior and our natural instincts. They move into a territory that could wind us up in some major problems and put us in a situation that we really shouldn't be in quite honestly. If we're finding ourselves in that place. I don't think it's by any accident, let's be honest about it. 

At least mentally, you don't have to vocalize it to anybody. I'm not going to ask you to do that just yet, but what other reason do we have to take it that far? If we aren't looking for some kind of attention reaction or seeking something out? Yes, that's my point. Exactly. But there is another side to this. 

I'll give you that if you're doing it because you need affirmation for your own self-esteem, then it wouldn't be a big ego booster. If the person didn't respond or even started talking to us, that's even more flattering. Isn't it? When it comes to our ego, most times we know no boundaries and the more we get, the more it feeds us, at least feeds our ego. 

In most cases, the buck doesn't stop there and we find ourselves in an affair, emotional or physical, even if it does stop there for you, at least you have some boundaries maybe, but then what's the point of it, right? To know that some stranger you will never see again, thinks you're attractive to look back at. 

You guess what? For every person who looks at you, there are at least five people who think you're not attractive. So again, I ask. What are you trying to prove to yourself that one in five people think you're attractive. We already know that. Why do you care? Those odds aren't even really that high. Okay. I know I'm going to make some of you really, really mad at me, and I'm not saying that you're ugly. 

I don't even. No, what you look like. And I consider myself a okay. Pretty woman, I guess. Beautiful. Oh, but this goes for me too. Did you know that most people who return the look are doing it because either a, they too are insecure and they're seeking an ego boost and probably wouldn't give you the time of day in reality or B. 

They're like, what the fuck are you staring at creeper? And, or see, you're like the 32nd person that day that they've given the eye to. And you're not really that special. I mean, I'm sure you really are as a person, but how do they know that they don't even know your damn name? So we know that there's people out there who are much better looking than you better looking than me. 

So why you, why me? Exactly. That's my point guys and gals, I'm not joking. I know it's sucky news, but a hundred percent of it is true. Let's say in one year, maybe one out of a hundred looks you get were genuinely meant for you. That's a lot of people to go through and a lot of time to waste, trying to find out which one of those looks were genuinely about you. 

And which one of them were for the other reasons that I had mentioned before they have nothing to do with you or little to do with you. That's a lot of  too. It would probably most likely destroy your self esteem. Eventually, if you really knew.  

Sean: [00:08:11] Okay. So let me jump in here and see if I can give my 2 cents. 

So let's break down what we're talking about here. So looking of course, it's normal to look at something that we find attractive. As I mentioned before, my wife has a little bit of a purse fetish on that. I have a tradition where I  

Jessica: [00:08:27] bought your tongue and say, purse booth, what are you doing?  

Sean: [00:08:35] Huh? Stop it. 

Now you messed me up. What? Are we still recording? Yeah. Oh my God. So she has a little bit of a purse fetish. So I buy her a new coach purse every year for anniversary. It's one of our traditions. She has a closet full of purses. They're beautiful purses. And every time, no matter whether it's target or the coach outlet or the coach store or anywhere where they have purses, she still looks no matter what she has at home. 

Her eyes still attracted to something that she finds attractive. That's normal. Now, as she mentioned before, there's a point where it crosses that line. When you are giving your attention, your time and your energy to someone that is not your spouse. You have most definitely crossed a line. When I came into our marriage, I was not the healthiest person in the world. 

My dad had a problem with looking at other women and I witnessed that growing up and I saw the hurt and pain that it caused and I hated it. But lo and behold, I picked up some of that and carried it right into our marriage. Most definitely  

Jessica: [00:09:29] guys  

Sean: [00:09:29] though, I didn't know at the time and society has developed this idea. 

Uh, over decades that it's normal for a man to look and men have taken that and ran with it. And so now we have this idea and women have been forced to swallow this idea that, Oh, my husband or my boyfriend is going to look and that's normal and I just need to put up with it. And at least he's coming home to me. 

And now you put in the over abundance of pornography in the world and what it does to your brain and how it objectifies women. And then it's like, it's hunting season out there. It's free and open season to look. And there's no consequence. It's the same mentally to you now as looking at something on the screen, you're looking at an object. 

You're looking at a nice car. You're looking at a beautiful purse and you don't realize. The pain it's causing your spouse. The pain is real. I've witnessed it firsthand. It's not talked about it's stuffed. It's let go. It's brushed off. Or it's turned into energy that your spouse then uses to act out herself. 

Um, but it's not normal. It's not right. And it causes a lot of pain. So, not only do you have this idea that men have picked up and this justification that they have, that you can look and that it's okay to look combined with the overabundance and overuse of pornography. And let's not fail to mention, uh, the media and popular culture playing into this, uh, movies, TV shows, magazines, the internet, and now, Oh my God. 

You've got this explosion of social media where I'm convinced the entire idea of social media is to narcissist society. Society. We've  

Jessica: [00:11:05] got a baby.  

Sean: [00:11:06] That's a new word. I'm going to trademark that. Um, look at me, look at me. Look at me, please look at me. Look at  

Jessica: [00:11:11] me, look at what I'm doing. Look at what I cooked. 

Look at where I went, look at this shot  

Sean: [00:11:14] that I took 400 shots to get the right one, but this, this is I'm  

Jessica: [00:11:18] going to portray it as how I actually look.  

Sean: [00:11:20] And Oh my God, it's, it's become rampant. And as my wife talked about 90% of what happens, 90% of the looks aren't about you. It's about getting the other person to look back at them. 

It's not because you're some super attractive person. It's not because they would ever touch you. It's not because they're interested in you. It's the same as collecting likes on Facebook or Instagram or anything else. It's how many, how many people can I get to look at me? And for decades and decades, this was the realm of men driving a fancy car. 

Wearing nice clothes spending two hours in the morning, trimming their beard. Perfect. How many women can I get to look at me? And now it's bled over into women. How many men can I get to look at me? How much of my ass can I leave hanging out of these shorts? How much of my tits can I have poking out of my shirt? 

How many men can I get to look at me today? Can I get that married man, over there to take his attention off his wife and look at me. It's not about you. It's never going to be about you. About 10% of it may be about you. If you're lucky. And I didn't know this because I'm stupid. And because I was immature and because I was single for so long and because I used pornography, one of the things that has helped me in this. 

And one of the tools I've used in this is now that I'm educated. And now that I know that it's kind of sucked the air out of any attention I could get, because now I know it's not about me, but I say all this, because I know statistically there has to be men listening to this show. And I want all you guys out there to think about what we've said. 

And think about what those looks are actually about and think about how your spouse feels. Because I know there had to have been a time when you've caught her looking at another man and you know, how it made you feel. So just know that there are consequences and feelings beyond just a harmless. Look, just think about,  

Jessica: [00:13:02] so ladies, I'm going to call us out here and be ready because this is just embarrassing for you as it is for me. 

But when we think about the words, competition, assertiveness challenge and aggression, we think that we're talking about men, but I'm not. I'm talking about us ladies. That's right. When it comes to men, we can get violent when we fight dirty and we pull out all the stops. I mean, Let me explain the number of things that happen here when it comes to women. 

And it's not always something we're aware that we're doing first and foremost, when it comes to a suitable mate, there are women who quite literally will become relentless. When we see a man. Especially a good looking one who seems to be a pretty standup guy, a good father, a good husband, our hormones, literally surge. 

Our natural instinct is to reproduce strong, healthy children with a strong, healthy meat. And this comes into play without us even knowing that it's happening, but we just sensed this urge, this eagerness, this excitement, this. Unknown factor come into play instinctual. It is it's all physiological. Now we noticed that the suitable strong mate is with another woman and our reaction is to take him for our own. 

So what we do is we'll try to compete for his attention. Even if his spouse or him haven't even noticed, we'll try over and over to get him to glance our way so that we can make that initial eye contact. Once we've made that eye contact, the process kind of starts at that point. He may also have a physiological response to this woman or us as well. 

And if he continues the cipher station, With the other woman, the other woman has now one leaving his spouse as the loser in the situation,  

Sean: [00:15:09] even about him. It's really just a competition for that woman. Right? He's not the prize. The prize is the ego  

Jessica: [00:15:15] boost. She gets exactly not the man. Well, and most guys would say, it doesn't go. 

It didn't go beyond that. And I didn't, I go home with her. I went home with my wife or my girlfriend, or what have you. So how did she win?  

Sean: [00:15:28] But we both know that that's not true because you're right. Time and your attention went somewhere else.  

Jessica: [00:15:33] Exactly. So we'll explain that later. Looking at the situation logically, logically, logically, do you really want to get that wrapped up with someone who has such little respect for herself and that she would humiliate you and your spouse in public and disrespect your marriage by looking at you even after she notices that you're taking. 

Whether she sees your spouse or the ring on your finger, which does it matter? We all know. I mean, come on. What kind of standards do you hold yourself to? I  

Sean: [00:16:04] mean, really what we have here is. It's a parallel of social media. It's not about wanting to take that man and make him your husband and have kids with him. 

Uh, it, because he's such a great prize or anything, it's the same thing as, Oh, I need a thousand friends on Facebook. Not because you want to be good friends with them and help them in their lives and, and hang out with them and, and, and be friends it's because you want to be able to show other people, look at how many friends I have. 

Look at how many wives, husbands. I got to look at me today. Self-affirmation self-aggrandizing. I love that word. Self-aggrandizing  

Jessica: [00:16:42] that's definitely another thing that happens though, is that women feed on these looks kind of, as my husband was talking about, especially if he's with another woman,  

Sean: [00:16:52] ego is a powerful thing for men and women. 

Jessica: [00:16:55] If a woman is able to draw a man's attention from his partner and bring that attention to her herself, she is now proved. To herself that she is better than his spouse.  

Sean: [00:17:06] She made it proved it to her caddy friends that are with her.  

Jessica: [00:17:10] Her ego has been boasted.  

Sean: [00:17:12] The money she spent on those eyebrows paid off. 

Jessica: [00:17:15] Oh, his self-esteem kig. It has absolutely nothing to do with you guys or us women at all. You're not the only guy she's done this with these women are doing it with just about every man that they can because. When it comes to ego, it knows no boundaries.  

Sean: [00:17:29] That's a good thing. Gonorrhea can be transmitted by a look. 

Jessica: [00:17:33] Not yet. Not yet. And the more you get to feed your ego, the hungrier, it becomes these scenarios. I just listed. There is a name for it. A scientific human behavior name, actually. This is called a female intrasexual competition. Yes. There's. I stumbled a little bit. You try it three times. No, don't worry. 

We're running at a time. It is a part of human behavior and it's a real thing that we're talking about, and I'm not saying all of us women do this, so ladies, let's not get. Pissed at me, if you're not one of these gals, but there are women who are married and they don't look at other men beyond a quick glance. 

Oh my gosh, she's hot. Moving on. There are even single women out there who are respectful of themselves and others enough to step back when they see that the man has taken. And I know that there are people out there who affairs are their thing, and this is how to find the one that's going to get crazy with  

Sean: [00:18:30] you slept detector. 

Is that what you're saying?  

Jessica: [00:18:32] I don't know. Do they have an app for that? I  

Sean: [00:18:34] probably do.  

Jessica: [00:18:36] So there are other scenarios where there's the looking going on. And one of them is, believe it or not women who look back at men who are staring at them, because they're trying to figure out why the guy is staring at them. 

This is actually me a lot of time. Maybe it's cause I don't think I'm that pretty or hot, but this is usually me. I would have to say maybe most women are probably like this, especially. Especially if you're a respectful, confident and secure woman, we don't like to really be algal dat, and we're actually quite offended. 

What?  

You're  

Sean: [00:19:11] not all just object.  

Jessica: [00:19:12] No. Oh, sorry, honey. Well, first of all, it makes us feel like we don't have a brain and it wouldn't matter to you if we did or didn't. You just want to,  

Sean: [00:19:25] that's probably true for a lot of guys,  

Jessica: [00:19:27] which tells me that you don't have much respect for yourself and it makes us wonder how many of you put your Twinkie in other women, which then makes us. 

Shutter with disgust at how many women you've all got that day, because we know for damn sure that we aren't the first and we won't be the last, it actually kind of creeps us out and makes us feel a little icky. I know that when I'm out and about, and I'm being ogled. And I see a wedding ring on his finger or his wife next to him, or maybe later on in the grocery store, I'll, I'll see him walking with her, his girlfriend or whatever. 

My thoughts are literally this you piece of shit. How could you be looking at other women when you're with your wife? You don't deserve her. You don't deserve any woman for that matter. And you're a pretty crappy man. I'll even turn to my husband and say this. There are times I see men looking at other women and I'll notice that he's wearing a wedding ring or his spouse is out of sight. 

And it wasn't even me that they look at. And I think the exact same thing, I'm like, Oh my God, you are with your wife. And I'm sitting here watching you check out this other woman, what the hell is your problem? And there are other people who. Notice this too. And I think a lot of times we get so caught up in it. 

We don't realize that other people can see us and they're thinking, Oh my God, that guy is a creep. His wife is right there. He's got a wedding ring on his finger and he's checking out this woman. And there've been times that I've met people's eyes in the stores or out and about. And we look at each other watching this, this dude, or even this woman, and we just shake our heads. 

Like, you've gotta be kidding me. Do you not know, you're not the only two people here.  

Sean: [00:21:04] Now, let me come in real quick, quick here. Um, because I know if there are men listening to the show, a lot of them probably got pissed off and might have turned this off a while ago. So let me be clear if you're with someone and you're looking at other women, not cool, not, not ever going to be okay. 

But as my wife started talking about before that, um, men that are looking. Uh, that are creepers or that come across as creepy. Now I w I would like to have it said that not all men who do this are actual creepers. There are other things that may be going on inside of them. I know that a lot of things that were going on with me were self-esteem issues of my own. 

Not that I was just being a creeper, but  

Jessica: [00:21:43] we don't them know that  

Sean: [00:21:44] it does come across that way, but I don't want men getting offended and think, Oh, she just called me a critter.  

Jessica: [00:21:49] No, that's not what I'm  

Sean: [00:21:51] self-esteem issues. Yeah. So there, there are other reasons they, they may have been taught differently and they don't know, they may have self-esteem issues. 

They may legitimately think that that's a way of going about trying to find a mate. Uh, but that's, if they're not with someone, if, if you're, if you're with someone. And even if you're with someone and she's not with you, you don't need to be doing that shit.  

Jessica: [00:22:11] Yeah. Yeah. And I urge you guys to take a few steps back. 

I think this is probably where my husband, um, had probably a majority of his realizations is when you're out and about pay attention to people. Maybe go, people watch for a little bit. Maybe this is contrary to what I'm telling you guys, but watch a beautiful woman when you spot one and see what the other men's reactions are around her and see how many men are actually. 

Giving her attention, staring her up and down, smiling at her, turning their head. There really isn't that many. So pay attention to that and then pay attention to the ones who you do notice, turn around and look and what they look like and what they're doing. Pay a mindful attention to that's how you look to other people. 

So this isn't a put down. This is just a realization as while you have things going on with you that you're not aware of. So do other people. And it's what we put out there that, that changes the perspective about us and can even make us change the perspective about ourselves.  

Sean: [00:23:13] So it's that whole effect of, um, and something that I can relate it to. 

And maybe you can too is when I was in high school, I smoked cigarettes and I thought it made me look cool. And I thought I was a real bad-ass for that. And now that I'm 41 years old and I go to pick up my daughter from high school and I see kids out there smoking cigarettes. And I'm like, that's what I looked like. 

Yeah. Oh my God.  

Jessica: [00:23:33] It's a hindsight bias. Right?  

Sean: [00:23:36] You've been paying attention. I've been reading, you're doing your home. You're so smart, baby. Thank you. I wish I was as smart as you. We make a great couple because she knows all the right things to do. Yeah. I don't know any of them.  

Jessica: [00:23:47] No, he's super he's super book smart. 

Let me tell you that. He's he's book smart. I'm the street smart one. Yeah, I love you.  

Sean: [00:23:55] I love you too.  

Jessica: [00:23:57] So let's not forget about something that it seems pretty clear, but we actually miss it a lot. If someone is with their spouse, if I'm with my spouse and there's someone looking at me while I'm with my husband or they notice the wedding ring on my finger, they're giving me some kind of attention. 

Why in the fuck would you want someone like that to begin with? I mean, think about that. You think that they're going, they're not going to be like that with you. Let's say for whatever crazy reason you to end up talking, hitting it off and getting married, like that's how they're going to be with you. 

They're they're not a faithful person. They don't respect that, that unity. And there's nothing that special about your perfect. They don't even know anything about you and. What are the chances that you were literally that irresistible and that special to them, and they are going to be so incredibly faithful to you with one look, that's just the person that they are. 

That's how they are. And it's a huge red flag that they probably earn such a great catch. And it's your sign to run and run fast.  

Sean: [00:25:00] It's not crazy though. It happens all the time. And you know, you talk about it in some of your earlier podcasts, but that's why, uh, second marriages end in divorce so much because people don't want to think that these people who are giving them looks and giving them attention, even though they're with someone else are going to be like that when they're with them. 

And that's you're right. It's just the person they are that's it happens all the time. Nothing crazy about it. People don't want to look at that when they're getting attention from someone, the ego can mask all of that. It can cover all of that when your ego is being,  

Jessica: [00:25:28] and the excuses that we use too, like, this is one of my favorites, not literally when I'm told or I hear stories that they're having problems with their spouse. 

Oh, wait a minute. You're having marital problems. I understand. And that's why you're pulled away emotionally checking me out or hitting on me or something. Yeah. Let me know how that works  

Sean: [00:25:48] out for you.  

Jessica: [00:25:50] I'm so sorry to hear. You're that? Wow. So what you're telling me is that when things get hard in your marriage or relationships, you run and you look up. 

For something new, something easy instead of Manning or womanising up and fighting for your marriage. You want everything to be easy and not want to have to deal with the problems. Right? So you're pretty much saying that your sense of faithfulness and devotion has limits and you're a no catch at all. 

Quite honestly. Come on. No wonder why you're having problems with your spouse, ladies and gentlemen, look at your behavior. Look at how you're behaving. Oh, but no, what do we do? It's everyone else's fault, but our own, what I'm trying to get out here is sure. We notice, right. We look, but when you're starting to go beyond he's hot, she's pretty nice. 

But moving on, it becomes lessening and it's wrong. And I don't want to get biblical on you guys, but it really is because if you sit and ponder about it, the emotional energy or you're giving it, are you starting to think about what they might. I feel like sexually or what you might do to them or what they would look like. 

It, it doesn't just hurt your spouse. It, and it does it, it hurts a lot, but it's disrespectful to your marriage and to yourself, and it opens your mind, your body, your spirit up to more and letting those looks and thoughts grow and linger. You're setting yourself up. There are some people who this doesn't bother, like. 

There are some people who are, you know, what, I don't care. As long as he comes home to me and stays faithful. That's all I care about. Great, more power to you that chances that, you know, that's actually what's going to happen is slim. But if that's really how your relationship goes, there's no judgment here. 

I'm not against, uh, saying or saying that, you know, if you're looking, this is exactly what's going to happen. I am going to say that the chances are much, much greater than you you're slipping yourself into a slippery slope. So much slippery.  

Sean: [00:27:42] Bring yourself into a slippery slope, slippery to say she sells seashells by the seashore. 

Jessica: [00:27:49] It's funny.  

Sean: [00:27:52] Sorry. I'm just Booksmart. I would say that the, the people who really don't care or say that they really don't care and Oh, he's coming home to me. She's coming home to me. I would say that the actual percentage that that is a hundred percent true for is very, very small. I would say the vast majority of people who say that are stuffing their feelings,  

Jessica: [00:28:11] right? 

Most of us know acting out  

Sean: [00:28:13] themselves. Sorry.  

Jessica: [00:28:14] No, that's fine. No matter how much we tried to deny it, just to save our ego, if fucking hurts, like hell it's embarrassing, it's humiliating. And it really does rip a marriage apart at the seams. I mean, take a minute to go back to the biblical saying. Do unto others, as you would want done unto you. 

And as my husband said earlier, how did it make you feel when you caught your spouse doing at a time or two? Because we all make mistakes and I'm not saying it's never going to happen, but think back and have some empathy in that moment of how it made you feel well, that's how your spouse is feeling. So earlier I talked about how I was going to touch on letting the other person win and your spouse becoming a loser. 

Well, that moments now, the attention that you give the stranger you took from your spouse. That mental energy you stole from your spouse in marriage and put it into that stranger. You told your spouse and everyone around you, that your spouse doesn't deserve your respect and love. And that this stranger is more important than your spouses. 

You let that stranger, when your attention, your time, your thoughts. Over your spouse and in the process also saying that they are worth more to you, that a stranger is worth hurting your spouse over. Think about that for a moment, the stranger was more important to you than your spouse. You sacrifice your integrity, your self respect, and your S in your spouse's deepest desires and needs to be your number one. 

You inflicted paint on them, emotional, deep pain on your spouse for that. Few moments of, uh, look seriously. Now you tell me that the stranger didn't win that competition. All those consequences. For a look and they didn't win. What the hell do you think you just told your spouse in that moment, whether they knew you did it or not is irrelevant because at some point they're going to catch you doing it. 

If it's something you do, you just told your spouse that you would sacrifice their heart and soul for a stranger. Your spouse is not your number one priority your marriage and the vows between you two are dismissible somehow. And in some way that stranger has something better than your spouse does that your spouse could never give you how, yeah. 

That stranger one does that stranger wake up to you with every morning and do the things for you that your spouse does every single day, did that stranger stick by you through some of your best and worst times. Did that stranger build a life with you? Did they love you unconditionally? Did they raise children with you? 

Do they contribute to your home on a daily basis? Do they put up with your shit day in and day out and still hug you and tell you how much they love you afterwards? What the hell did that stranger do for you and how in the hell could you ever hold a candle up to that person and not the one who is committed to you and earn their right to be the center of your attention. 

This stranger just walks by and is able to take you away from your spouse, just like that. What the hell does that do for you? What the hell have they done for you? Not a damn thing, but act like a fool. Trying to take some married person's attention away from where it should be and walk away. Proud of them. 

Fucked up accomplishment. What they did was disrespect. You. They disrespected, your spouse, your home, your wife, your kids, your marriage. That's what they did. And you're interested in that. I say, go find out what that's all about because YouTube deserve each other.  

Sean: [00:31:38] And keep in mind guys that if you're married and another woman looks at you and you've just returned the look, she's probably not walking away thinking, Oh my God, he looked at me. 

Oh, he's amazing. And I'm so special. What she's walking away thinking is he looked at me, I got my ego boost, but what a piece of shit and what a fool for doing that, and I'd never touch him.  

Jessica: [00:31:59] That is actually a really, really good point. I can't tell you how many times I've told you. Yeah, I was really flattered by that look, but he had a wedding ring on his finger. 

What a piece of shit. Yeah, it's  

Sean: [00:32:09] not everything's  

Jessica: [00:32:10] about you, but you know, there are things that we can do to mitigate how much this impacts your marriage. And let's talk about that for a little while, because we are way, way over time here, first and foremost, never, ever, ever deny your doing it. When your spouse confronts you don't deny it. 

Not ever, never pretend like you never looked because you're not that powerful of a human being, not even the most. Godliest of men or women have that kind of personal control and struggle. That is the worst thing you can do. You create so much distrust, anxiety, lack of trust, and a ton of much bigger, bigger problems than just that look, that shit will explode in your face. 

So fast above all else, don't lie about it. And that is actually a form of mental manipulation called gaslighting. Where you try to make someone believe something to be untrue that they absolutely know is true. You are playing with fire there, guys. And ladies gaslighting people can cause serious, serious mental illness. 

And eventually if done enough can make them literally mentally. Snap, like we're talking a mental breakdown, paranoia, anxiety, unable to differentiate what reality is, do not lie and do not Gaslight. Secondly, you and your spouse need to talk about it. Just like I said, in foreplay before the foreplay, this is part of emotional connection. 

This is part of the bonding between you. Two is being open and honest about your thoughts and feelings, and you will find some insights about you that you didn't even know were going on in these situations. But the open and honesty is really, really important. I know it's hard to talk about. It can be embarrassing. 

Sometimes it can hurt to hear it, but it's important to have these open, honest conversations without judgment, defensiveness, anger. Don't let it get there. Try and stay. Open-minded and understanding and put yourself in places where you might've done the very same thing and understand that we're all human. 

And the goal here is to come to a solution, understand and agree with one another, respect each other's feelings and opinions on this truly. If giving up, looking at attractive people, saves your marriage from so much drama, her resentment and anger. Isn't it worth it. There just looks. That's a pretty small thing to give up for someone you say you love and respect. 

It's one of the most incredible gifts you can give to them to show them how much you really love them. Um, it's a huge deal for your spouse. I can tell you that. Not to mention you get a win-win in this, do you know how much more amazing you'll look to all those people? Shit. Why not take it a step further? 

And when you see someone looking at you turn to your spouse and kiss them passionately, how rare is that? That man or woman who's looking at you, they're going to think. Damn, they're lucky. But it is especially important to be honest about why you're looking, what your thoughts are and what you're expecting out of the situation. 

Being open about this as pure vulnerability, embarrassing and really hard to do. As I mentioned, a few moments ago, if this is something that's causing problems in your marriage, even here and there, or on a regular basis, it's not going to go away. It's going to keep. Creating problems and just like any unintended problem in a marriage, it's going to keep building until it explodes and no longer some little thing that you can sweep under the rug, but a problem that it's going to jeopardize your marriage. 

Sean: [00:35:39] And don't be stupid because even if you think it's not a problem, If it's happening, trust me, it's causing problems somewhere and somewhere in your marriage or somewhere in your life things. Aren't right. And maybe you need to take a look at that. Maybe this is why,  

Jessica: [00:35:53] and if you're one of the spouses that is hurting over your spouse's wandering eyes. 

There are a few things that you can do in a situation to bring back your own self-esteem and control and not allow it to get to you. And we can't change our spouse. That's entirely up to them. We can only control ourselves and the environment and the situations that we allow ourselves to be in. And that's all we have control over is our behavior and our actions  

Sean: [00:36:21] and lead by example. 

If your spouse sees you acting, right, they may be more inclined to act right themselves. Or they may just start to feel guilty about what they're doing and be able to come to you and say, look, I haven't been acting right. I see what you're doing. I see how you're living your life. And I want to be like that. 

I want to stop my behavior lead by exam.  

Jessica: [00:36:36] Exactly. If the situation is a minor situation and it's only causing mild, mild discomfort, you can bring it to your spouse's attention. Um, pull them in for a kiss, make eye contact with them and look at them lovingly and tell them you love them no matter what you can even throw in there. 

If you're positive someone designs, eyeing them, that it's hurting you. And all you want is to be their number one. Ask them lovingly to please not hurt you like that. And to respect your marriage being open and honest, as I keep saying is very, very helpful and diffuses the power this has in your marriage. 

I'm not above noticing even a beautiful woman and pointing it out to my husband. And sometimes I'll act like I didn't see him looking or all point her out. So he knows that I know that she's there and he doesn't need to sneak peaks in at least so much. They did that mostly in the beginning, but I allow him to be buddies with me and I love it when we can have fun with it and not take it too far in, I'll say something like, Oh my God, baby, look at her booty. 

It's so hot. I wish I had a bet like that. And he'll take a look over and either say, wow, yeah, that's pretty hot. Or, eh, that's a little too much for my taste, but she has a really beautiful face and then we'll move on and it completely deflates the whole situation and takes power out of it. There's some women. 

I wish I could take power out to that to get kind of jealous over those big booties out there. There are other times where I notice a woman is staring at my husband and I'll let them know, you know, hand baby seem to have an, a Meyer over there. And he'll look for her. Of course, he's a man. He wants to know. 

We all have a little bit of an ego and wants to know if he should be flattered or not. But he turns right back to me and gives me his complete attention after, and even make sure that he completely turns his back on her and, and does not even allow his eyes to go that direction clear. He's not interested, even though she might be hot, she doesn't need to know what he thinks he's married. 

I usually joke about it. I'll laugh it off. Sometimes later on, we'll see her in the store or see her later and I'll say, Oh goodness, your girlfriend's back, baby. Would you like me to introduce you to, I don't say it sarcastically. I'm completely joking. I'm even open about other men. I'll let my husband know. 

Well, that was flattering. He keeps looking at me and he's really hot, but I'll move on and I'll say, kiss me. Let's make a statement here. Some people. Think that some of these things are really unhealthy and feed and condone the behavior. And while I can see that and I can agree with it, it's something that works for us. 

I'm not a complete prude. I don't expect my husband to never look. I look and notice men and women and how can I hold him to a standard that I can't even maintain as long as we're talking about it, rather than keeping it secret and moving on. I'm totally cool with it. I'm torn though, too. And I have a side of me that can hang with guys and it's easy for me. 

And I prefer my man to talk to me and be buddies with me and joke about it together than be all secretive and hiding it. Thinking that I can't handle the truth. My experiences, the more private it is, the worse. It actually gets bringing it into the light and being both aware that it's there and it's happening more times than not takes the emotional and mental power away from the situation and allows it to be less dramatic. 

And. Less intense. So if some of these things don't work for you, that's cool. Take what you want and leave the rest to each their own. No judgment from me. Another way to diffuse things or deal with it is let's say you're at an event and there is someone who has your spouse's attention, or they have their attention on your spouse. 

Walk up to them and have a lighthearted, casual, friendly conversation with them. Introduce yourself. You know, hi, my name's Jessica. Nice to meet you. How's your night going, blah, blah, blah, blah. Don't confront them about it. Don't talk about your spouse at all. As a matter of fact, or what they're doing, just be cool and chill. 

Like you're making new friends. My stepdad taught me this one and boy, the power you take away from this. From them and your spouse is huge. Lastly, I want to touch on if it's becoming really uncomfortable and it's being taken too far, you don't have to stay in a situation like that. You can leave. I have this happened at my sister-in-law's wedding earlier this year, and there was this chick and she was relentless. 

So disrespectful about it. At first, I was being cool about it and making him aware of it. Then there came a point where I wasn't sure so much that he was not feeding it. And there were a few indicators that he might have been doing that he also wasn't shutting it down either. Even if he wasn't taking that far, he wasn't taking the steps to shut that down and taking the action that he needed to, to stop the behavior from her, by using his body language and other things that he's done in the past. 

And so. Most people don't keep looking if they don't have the field to keep looking. So if you've shut the behavior down by showing you're not interested, I'd have to say nine times out of 10 that person's going to stop trying to get your attention. Because they see a notice. You're not interested. If this person is continuing to get your spouse's attention, I'd have to say most of the time they're doing something to keep it going. 

And they're waiting for the moment that they give the attention back again when you're not noticing. So that's kind of what I noticed was going on here. I decided that I was going to leave. And so without causing a scene, I politely told my husband I'm leaving that I love him, but this was too uncomfortable. 

And, and I don't have to force myself into a situation that's hurting me. I left peacefully. I made sure I acted completely cool though. Confident collected, not to alert anyone that anything was going on. Guess what? My husband followed you can take control of your situations. No matter if it's at a party at dinner with your spouse out running errands, you don't have to fight about it. 

You don't have to be heard about it. You don't have to argue about it. Just remove yourself. From the situation in a confident and loving way. If this is something that happens a lot, when you two are out together, you can refuse to go out with your spouse until the behavior changes. I did this a long time ago. 

You do not have to just put up with it and tolerate it. If you love the person enough to stay in the relationship for whatever other reasons there are, because I had my reasons to stay. You don't have to end the relationship. Just don't allow yourself to be put in situations like that. You don't have to let go of your self-confidence and your respect. 

You can actually take that back and be more confident and respectful. Just remember your behavior is your responsibility. You don't need to do it in a dramatic way. It's very sexy. It's classy and confident to be able to accomplish this kind of reaction and a loving, cool and calm way.  

Sean: [00:43:30] And so in closing and especially to any, uh, men who may be listening and to the women as well, here is what I have learned and taken on. 

And some of the things that I do and that we do to, uh, kind of mitigate this problem. So, number one, it's very important, even if it's not a problem in your relationship to sit and have an open, honest conversation with your spouse about what is acceptable, what is normal? What's your expectations of one another are, um, what certain things might mean and might not mean, uh, what constitutes, you know, get some definitions. 

What constitutes a glance? What takes it beyond a glance what's considered too far? What's considered inappropriate. What will be accepted? Um, what won't be accepted, what is human and, and what is.  

Jessica: [00:44:16] Crossing the line,  

Sean: [00:44:17] crossing the line. So have that open, honest conversation, establish some boundaries, establish some definitions so that both of you are going into it with your eyes open and it'll take the confusion out of it. 

And it'll take the gray areas out of it. Do it in a loving way. Don't argue about it. And accept what your spouse says. If their boundaries are different than yours, whether they're less or more or whatever. So other people trying to get your attention when you're obviously with someone it's about taking power from you and taking power away from your spouse and giving it to themselves, the best thing you can do in a situation like that is take the power out of it. 

Take the power away from them and put that energy into your spouse. The. Therapeutic value and the benefit it could have to your relationship from somebody trying to take that power to you, giving that power back to your spouse can be tremendous. So if you notice someone is looking at you and trying to get your attention, bring your spouse into it, point them out, make them aware of it. 

Then do something. That's a clear statement that you're not interested. Turn your back to them. Give them a confused look. Yup. Go one step further and give them a confused look and then hit your spouse on the shoulder and point her in the direction of the person trying to get your attention. I guarantee you that'll put a stop to it. 

There'll be so embarrassed. They won't try it again. And it's telling that person, you're not going to get any attention from it. You don't have any power here. My spouse is the important one. And it's going to tell your spouse that to passive techniques. Also, you see someone. That you think might be attractive in your peripheral vision. 

And you're walking down the aisle at a grocery store or something with your spouse, turn to your spouse, keep your eyes on your spouse, turn your eyes somewhere else. Don't leave them in the direction of the person that may be attractive, you know? Out of the corner of your eye, even without seeing them, if they're going to, if they have the potential to be attractive or not. 

If your spouse is letting you know either directly or indirectly that he or she is uncomfortable in a situation, take it upon yourself before they have to say anything at all to say, honey, I see you're uncomfortable. Let's get out of here or let's go sit somewhere else or  

Jessica: [00:46:11] can we switch seats?  

Sean: [00:46:12] Can we switch seats? 

Yeah. Whatever you gotta do to take, take yourselves out of that uncomfortable situation, be open and honest with your spouse. If you looked admit it, but try not to make that look last longer. You know, don't use that as an excuse to look or do whatever you want and then come back and say, well, I did that, but at least I was honest about it. 

Understand going into it also that even if you. Didn't take it too far. And you're honest about it. There may still be hurt feelings and that's okay. And that's normal.  

Jessica: [00:46:39] Not everything in a marriage is always going to be perfect, even when we're doing the right thing, but it leads to wonderfulness,  

Sean: [00:46:46] right? 

Yeah. And go, you, you may have to go through an hour or two of uncomfortableness and hurt feelings. To get to an even better place afterwards, rather than making the situation more easy to handle in the moment and risking a lot greater consequences later. So like I said, it's all about taking the power out of that situation. 

Talk about it, joke about it, laugh about it and understand that even if it's not being talked about, it's probably still causing some discomfort, some hurt feelings and some problems somewhere in your marriage. If it is in any way, shape or form happening on either side.  

Jessica: [00:47:20] Is there some really great points, honey? 

Thank you. Thank you.  

Sean: [00:47:23] Not bad for someone who's just book-smart. Huh?  

Jessica: [00:47:27] You're not going to let that go. Never wonderful. So I hope you all enjoyed this episode. It was really, really nice to have my husband Sean here.  

Sean: [00:47:39] Yeah. I want to thank all the listeners for putting up with me for the last, almost an hour. 

And, uh, I've been a part of the show though, behind the scenes, as an editor and to help my wife brainstorm and come up with ideas. And it's really, really cool to be an active part of the show. I may have also had something to do with the theme song. It may or may not have. Yeah. But thank you for letting me join you, honey. 

I appreciate it. I hope I helped. I hope there was something insightful. I hope the listeners got something from me to take away. Any questions, please feel free to ask though, if you're female, you must go through my wife as she talked about in her last podcast, but I'm happy to answer any questions, you know, any questions in general that we can answer as a couple and please give her feedback. 

Let her know if it was horrific having me on the show, let her know. So I don't embarrass her myself again. And if you liked having me on the show, then let her know so we can do it again. So I had fun.  

Jessica: [00:48:29] Did you have fun? I did. I like sharing a mic with you. It's kinda hot.  

Sean: [00:48:32] And we'll see where that goes later. 

Jessica: [00:48:35] I don't know. We'll see how the football game goes. Right? Cowboys win. Yeah.  

Sean: [00:48:38] I hope so. We might've lost half your audience admitting I'm a Cowboys fan.  

Jessica: [00:48:43] Well, to each their own. Right? Right. So that's it for today's show,  

Sean: [00:48:47] unless you're an Eagles fan, then I just can't. I just  

Jessica: [00:48:50] can't do it. Hey, you can't insult my listeners. 

I love them.  

Sean: [00:48:54] Okay. Except the Eagles fans.  

Jessica: [00:48:57] Thank you all for listening.  

Sean: [00:49:01] I love you Philadelphia.  

Jessica: [00:49:04] You've never been there.  

Sean: [00:49:05] I like their cheese steak.  

Jessica: [00:49:08] Like I said, he's book smart. 

Don't forget to like the show, subscribe, uh, visit our website. All of our social media links are on the website. www.theconfidentmarriage.com. It was so awesome to do this episode. Lots of fun. I told you guys it would be a special edition. I just hope that. You guys stuck it out for the whole hour.  

Sean: [00:49:33] Thanks for sticking it through. 

I know it must've been excruciating here in my voice.  

Jessica: [00:49:37] Yeah. I can't tell you how many times we had to cut. Cause he and I can. Banter with one another, a little too far, but it's fun.  

Sean: [00:49:45] There's going to be some bantering tonight.  

Jessica: [00:49:46] Oh goodness. Sean. I sound like you're a mom. No,  

Sean: [00:49:51] nevermind. That just killed it  

Jessica: [00:49:55] anyways,  

Sean: [00:49:56] by the way, we're going to do a show about in-laws coming soon. 

Jessica: [00:49:58] Yes. As a matter of fact, perfect segue. Next episode will be on in-laws and I hope you guys all tonight.  

Sean: [00:50:08] Oh, we should get my mom to be a special guest.  

Jessica: [00:50:10] Oh goodness. I don't know that I can handle that. I did not just say that.  

Sean: [00:50:15] I don't think she listens to the show. They got it.  

Jessica: [00:50:18] Anyways. That is it for the confident marriage. 

I hope you guys all enjoyed it and we can't wait to see you back here next week. This is the confident marriage podcast. And I'm your host, Jessica.  

Sean: [00:50:31] 27 countries. Keep it coming.