Episode 15: Unfaithful, my marriage feels like a hurricane

Affairs. No one wants to talk about them, and yet they are probably one of the most important things that need to be talked about if they’re happening in your relationship. In the first part of this three-part series, Sean and Jessica dive into what an affair is. We talk about the different types of affairs, why they happen, the effects they can have on your relationship, and why it’s so important to talk about them. In the following weeks, we will be covering how to heal from affairs, whether you are the one who has been hurt or the one who has had an affair. As always, we will be giving you sound advice that comes from our personal experience and exhaustive research. This is a heavy topic, but one of the most important ones you could ever face, and it could make or break your relationship. 

Episode Transcript

Jessica: come back to episode 15, 15, 15.

Sean: Wow. We're almost old enough to drive.

Jessica: Oh my gosh. I can't even remember that day anymore. It's been a while. So before we get started, I hope you all know that we are on all the podcasts and the music apps that have podcasts.

Uh, just so just search her name. We also have an Alexa app. If you didn't know, well, an Alexa skill, it's not an app. So if you go to the Alexa skill store and you search us, you can add us to your Alexa. And then all you have to do is say, Alexa, give me my daily briefing. And then while I, you get to hear Sean and I will be there in

Sean: your home

Jessica: listening.

No, that's Alexa, not S I'm just kidding. Just a little joke about that whole thing while you're there [00:01:00] looking us up on your app or on the Alexa skills, don't forget to rate us and subscribe to the feed. Also, you can like, and follow us on Facebook at the confident marriage, Twitter, the sea marriage show, and Instagram at confident marriage.

So I hope you guys check us out. I have been super active on social media. Um, I'm not good at social media, but I'm learning and I'm having a lot of fun with it. And I've been interacting with my listeners a lot on there. Uh, I have been breaking one of my roles and that's being too much in my phone and not enough in my marriage, but I, I really want people to know us and discover us because.

Uh, Sean and I just really, really enjoy doing this. And we have this desire and this passion and this one, this need to give back to others what was given to us. So we have fun

Sean: doing it, and we want to give [00:02:00] back, we want to help people.

Jessica: Yeah, we're doing live videos

Sean: now, too.

Jessica: Yes, we did. One last night, we had a ton of fun.

We had a whole bunch of people on interacting with us. It was, it was a blast. You guys, for those who joined us on our Instagram live video. Thank you. We really, really enjoy talking. Yeah. And with you guys.

Sean: Yeah. Thank you.

Jessica: It was fun. It was a lot of fun. Another piece of news, we're doing newsletters now. So part of signing up for the newsletters is that you get first dibs on the podcasts that drop.

So typically they are not released to the public till Tuesday, but if you subscribe to the newsletter, you get them on Monday plus exclusive news and you get to know all our news first, before it hits social media and other people. So you can subscribe@wwwdottheconfidentmarriage.com.

Sean: I need to get my weekly 2 cents into that newsletter.

I can't let you have all the fun.

Jessica: No, you totally should, should like, you know, dedicated to the dudes [00:03:00] or something DDS I'll get right on it. Yeah. She just say double DS. No, I said DDS

Sean: got a little excited.

Jessica: Wait that we can't say DDS. I don't know. Dedicated to the dudes. I'll think

Sean: of my own name. Okay.

Jessica: I thought that was pretty savvy.

So we should probably jump in because this is going to be a heavy one and it's going to be a really hard one to talk about, but. That's what we do here. We talk about those things that are hard to talk about. Yeah.

Sean: And funny banters over. Shit's about to get real.

Jessica: No, we got to keep it. Like they're expecting it.

I'm expecting it. I can't do a serious show without our goofiness. Okay.

Sean: Me either. I don't know how to do serious.

Jessica: That is not, that's not true.

Sean: I don't know that.

Jessica: I don't know how someone can be such a serious individual and yet be cheeks, but so funny and sarcastic. They have no idea what the budget,

Sean: our son, our five-year-old [00:04:00] son learned the word.

Now. That's all we can say. He walks around going butt cheeks, butt cheeks, butt cheeks. Hmm.

Jessica: Oh my gosh. He's a crazy one. So. Back to seriousness. This is unfaithful. My marriage feels like a hurricane and boy. Oh boy. Does it feel like a hurricane when something like that happens, it feels like your whole world has been turned completely upside down.

Well,

Sean: and that's because your whole world has been turned completely upside down.

Jessica: Yeah. Everything that you knew, everything that you believed, your whole reality just seems right. Like it's all a lie. It's gone. It's none of it was real. What was real, what wasn't real, all these questions and not knowing which way is up or down and set or out left to right.

Is a feeling that you can't quite understand until you've been there. That's very

Sean: true. And let me put [00:05:00] out there also, this is going to be a three-part series to finish out the year. So this is. Part one of that three part series. And we're going to talk about what an affair is. W how is it defined? What are the different types we're going to get into some of the, you know, healing from the affair on, on both sides, the person who committed the affair and the person who was hurt by the affair.

But for this episode, we're going to stay focused on trying to get some definitions around it, because it can become so complicated.

Jessica: Right? Don't you agree? 100%. So next week on December 14th, we will be doing healing when your spouse has had an affair. And then on December 21st is healing. When you have been unfaithful, because contrary to common beliefs, even the one that has had an affair needs healing.

And it's a hard, long road for them too, and both have a lot of discovery and discussion and decisions, [00:06:00] and it's pretty messy. And I also want. You guys to know that while this seems like we're talking about present tense and maybe you have just discovered the fare. I want you to know that everything that we're doing in this series can be applied to a situation that has happened.

Maybe even happened quite a while ago. You can. Hit that stop and restart button and try something different and new. What if, what you're doing right now, isn't working. So I just want you guys to know that this isn't just for people who have just discovered it, this isn't just for the here and now you can go back and you can apply these things and just kind of start over.

So don't be shut down by our use of present tense and recent words. This applies to. Any situation in which you're seeking some healing from an affair and finding a new way to go about the healing and processing [00:07:00] and get past it, if that's what she wants. So a really helpful piece of advice that I want to give you guys is as you're listening to the three part series, get a pen and paper, or get a journal and take notes.

This is going to be really helpful to refer to later. It's also going to help you start processing and thinking through some thoughts and feelings that you have, maybe something we said triggered an idea or a feeling or a thought or, uh, something that, uh, you're going to want to remember and hold onto and work on later if you're driving or you're working or you're doing things around the house or you're just listening.

That's fine. Listen to the podcast, come back to it later, sit down and really be able to pay attention and write things down as they come to you. It doesn't matter what it is. It could be something random. It could be your own idea. It could be a feeling. It could be a [00:08:00] trigger. It could be, uh, something that you remembered.

Anything. Just jot it down. If you have to listen to it in increments. That's okay, too. Totally do that. Even often I say, listen to something like this more than once, because we don't process everything at one time. So while we'll hear something, when we go back and hear it again, We'll hear things that we didn't remember hearing before that we were like, Whoa, how did I miss that?

It's very normal. We can only process so much at one time. So it's like a movie you watch, you know, you see a movie and then there's a senior. Like, I don't remember that scene. So listen to it more than once another suggestion into, for this series that I want to give you is I, I really want you to make sure that no matter if you are the one who has been hurt or you're the one who has had the affair.

Listen to all three parts. The reason for this is [00:09:00] going to become more clear. As we go through the series, but in essence, there are going to be things that you're going to need to know that we spoke to the one who had the affair about that. You're going to need to understand, and you're going to want to have some say in how that works and you're going to want to know what they're talking about, what they're doing, this isn't just for you.

And just for them, this is a combination thing you're doing this together. So listen to all three parts. You can do it together. You can do it separately or you can do it together and separately. It doesn't matter. The other reason is when we talk about the one who's been hurt, there's going to be a lot of things that you may not be able to vocalize to your partner that's going on.

That might be easier, or maybe even put in a better understanding to your partner that you want them to know and understand about you. But you're not quite sure how to say it, or you're too scared to say it. So having them here. What goes on and what we're going to be walking you through will help them understand also their piece of what they're going to be [00:10:00] doing.

So this is all interchangeable. It's all very important. So those are my tips. As we dive into this episode, lastly, sort of a disclaimer, before we get started, Shawn and I are not therapists. We are not coaches. We're not, uh, we don't specialize in this. We are simply a couple who have gone through a lot and have figured out a lot and experienced a lot and we're sharing our opinions and what worked for us and what has worked for other couples that we have spoken to.

And we have, uh, I had the pleasure of being able to work with either them, us, or us them. So this is solely our opinion. It's what we discovered. We're not at all [00:11:00] saying that this is the fix-all. We're not saying that this is going to be the magic wand. We're not saying that at all. And we're just sharing with you, our experience, our strength, and our hope solely our opinion.

So if you're new to the show and you found this episode and you're hurting, I. Or even if you're not new and you're, you don't know our whole story. We just want you to know that these are just things that we have found helpful in our marriage. And so we're sharing them because maybe they'd be helpful for you.

So as we dive in to this, know that, that we are not, um, any kind of special people who know it all, and we're not claiming to be, I feel like this probably was not a good time. To do the series because it's Christmas. Yeah.

Sean: Merry Christmas. Let's talk about [00:12:00] affairs.

Jessica: God,

Sean: everybody's hurting. Oh

Jessica: goodness. See, this is what I mean when I say his, his funniness can sometimes be in the wrong ways.

Wow. I love you. I love

Sean: you too. So I, I don't know. Is there ever really a good time to talk about this stuff?

Jessica: There really isn't.

Sean: No, but then again, It's always the time to talk about it, if it's going on, because it needs to be talked about. So let's get into what exactly an affair is.

Jessica: There's so many definitions in so many ways to have an affair.

So in episode nine, we did a series on Wallen episode on emotional affairs. And a lot of people wouldn't really consider an emotional affair and affair until you really understand what it is. And then people are like, Oh yeah, I could, I could totally see that. So to recap, that [00:13:00] episode very quickly, an emotional affair is connecting with someone okay.

On an emotional level. So you're talking to someone at work about your personal life in great detail. You're seeking. Comfort from them in a deeper way than you would just a friend you're sneaking around talking to them, texting with them, calling them lunch dates, dinner dates. There is no physical contact, and yet you're emotionally bonding and connecting with this person.

And eventually if it's not already there, sexual feelings start to develop whether you act on them or not. And this is the kind of affair that takes away from your spouse in the emotional sense. It is the things that you should be talking to your spouse about, even if they are about them.

Sean: So an affair then we could say probably is connecting with someone on any scale or level [00:14:00] when it's connection in a way that you should only be connecting with your spouse, whether that be sexual, emotional,

Jessica: financial, maybe even financial.

Exactly. So you could, yeah, you could totally have enough here on your spouse financially. That's a really good point.

Sean: I don't think people think about they, they hear a fare and they think sex, but it's so much deeper than that. No, no pun

Jessica: intended. Yeah. Well, and often even sexual affairs, it's not all about the sex.

No,

Sean: no,

Jessica: it's actually really rare that it has anything to do with sex. And that's something that psychologists and behaviors, uh, talk a lot about and they've been studying and they're finding that it's more about just a connection with someone it's the feeling of being wanted. Again, it's the excitement.

It's the ego boost. It's the dopamine. Well, which we'll talk about in a minute,

Sean: not to dumb it down, but I guess. [00:15:00] If you're not getting something from your spouse that you need, even if it's not your spouse's fault, if you're not receiving that from the affair starts, when you start seeking that from others,

Jessica: kind of.

So what they're discovering is that really, when people start to disconnect from their spouse, they start. Finding other ways to fulfill it. And that often has a lot to do with not putting in your intention, into your marriage and just kind of expecting things to organically, be wonderful all the time.

And then when you discover that they're not, you think that there's something wrong with the marriage and instead of looking for help or trying to work it out with your spouse, you kind of just let everything fall flat on its face. And then it's like, Oh, well I don't feel sexy anymore. I don't feel desired anymore.

I don't feel wanted anymore. Oh, look at this, this woman, this man, they need me, they want me, they find me desirable. I remember when I felt like that with my spouse or when my spouse felt like that about me. And that's [00:16:00] essentially how it kind of starts so often. And rarely is it the spouse's fault entirely.

And it has nothing to do with you not being enough. You were always enough. It has nothing to do with you not being good enough, not handsome enough, not beautiful enough yet. Maybe you had a part in it because maybe you weren't intentional in that. Maybe I'm

Sean: sorry. I keep interrupting

Jessica: you. You're supposed to you're part of the show.

Sean: It's I would imagine that usually there's a lot deeper problems going on in the relationship than just not feeling wanted by your partner. And it's probably a little on both of them for not. Talking about and working on those issues. That's not to say that an affair is justified by any never, never the right way to go.

Jessica: No, but when you ask the question, why these are some of the reasons

Sean: and the term and the tendency is to blame the partner, that's having the affair and you know, not wanting to look at your own part, but [00:17:00] that's something that has to be done through the healing. Also, I think for both parties,

Jessica: Right. Both of them are not working on the relationship.

They're not working on themselves and they're not working for each other. And that's when, that's why they say marriage is hard is because do you ever stop doing your job? Because you're doing a good job? Well,

Sean: some people do, but it doesn't work out so well. No, it

Jessica: doesn't

Sean: just like it doesn't in a marriage

Jessica: then the door ends up slamming in your face at some point.

Right? So another thing that we talked about. And this was discussed in, uh, our pornography, uh, porn, your brain and your marriage. And it applies here too. So another reason could be sexual addiction, which is a whole nother beast. Sometimes people are just addicted to. The thrill and the thrive, or there's some kind of internal thing going on where they never quite feel like enough.

They never quite feel like they're good enough. [00:18:00] And they're always seeking attention behavior, or they get a thrill from these one night stands, these sex flings. That's something far beyond this episode. It's something more in the lines

Sean: with drug addiction or something that requires some. Some more in-depth help.

Jessica: Right. And so there's programs out there there's sex anonymous, believe it or not, and it is highly, highly effective. So I would look into that there's therapists who specialize in that there's books. So, uh, I would highly recommend that if this becomes something that is an addiction. Is attention seeking thrill seeking.

Oftentimes there's a lot of pornography use involved as well. Uh, there's a history of drug, uh, drug addiction, alcoholism. If these are some common behaviors, then chances are, it's not just, uh, [00:19:00] there's something going on in my life. Or I feel like I'm missing something. This is often a, a mental disorder that needs to be, uh, sought help after.

Sean: Okay. So I have a question for you. Sure. So seeking a connection outside of your partner that you should be having with them. So like we talked about on an emotional level or maybe on a financial level or definitely on a sexual level now, would, would we consider pornography use behind your spouse's back in a fair?

And I know the answer to this because we've talked about it, but our listeners don't.

Jessica: As I always say to each their own in essence, scientifically, and by definition, it most certainly is.

Sean: And I can speak from experience on this, that when you're using pornography, especially when you're using it behind your spouse's back.

You are most definitely seeking a kind of connection outside of them. [00:20:00] And you're definitely taking away from what your spouse should be getting.

Jessica: Right. So when you study the use of pornography, it's more than just self-gratification or masturbation when they've studied the use of pornography situation around it.

I mean, I don't even really know how to put that into words, but essentially what you're doing is you're imagining you're having sex with someone else. Therefore, You are taking your emotional and physical and sexual energy and putting it into another human being, whether they're there or not. It is the same as if you were on a video call with someone and you were masturbating and they were masturbating and talking to one another.

Would you not consider that there it is the same thing. So technically yes. Do I put pornography down entirely? No, I do not feel pornography in, in its whole is bad. I feel like when it's used in those ways or too much that it is [00:21:00] very denture, but detrimental. Right, right. So, but going back to affairs and where I'm, where I'm trying to lead you to with this is that there are chemicals in the brain that produce gratification, and that is dopamine.

And this is something that happens, whether you're having sex with your spouse or another person or masturbation pornography, it all does it. But often what can happen is when you get yourself. So let's say that you're going to go skydiving for the first time. You are going to get a rush of dopamine and you are going to get on this high.

And it's new and it's exciting. It's your first time. It's something different. It's something you haven't experienced. So the rush is going to be more than when you've experienced skydiving over and over and over [00:22:00] again. You're still going to get that rush of a dopamine, but it's not going to be quite like it was the first couple of times you did it.

That's kind of what happens. Not kind of, that is what happens in affairs most often after time. When a fair to start lasting for a period of time, it just means that there's some feelings developed. And now that there's a relationship. So now they have two separate lives, but sexual activity releases large amounts of dopamine into your brain.

So that produces the feeling of instant gratification. And dopamine is the same chemical that is released in the brain as reward seeking behavior and causes you to create a habit out of the behavior per purely. From the chemicals that are being released. So essentially when you have reward seeking behavior and you get a reward from it, it's something that becomes habitual or you're wanting to do it again.

And so this is how the rabbit hole starts to happen in affairs is [00:23:00] you get that rush. And you keep wanting it and often as it starts to wear off, you keep doing it again and again, and again, hoping to get that same rush that you got in the beginning and wondering why you can't accomplish it anymore. I think that one

Sean: thing we've talked about is, uh, people might think that, uh, having an affair will give them this rush and having an affair will give them all these good feelings and given what they're lacking or what they feel like they're lacking at home.

And we've both talked about how we feel like some people go out and they have the affair and it doesn't give them what they want. But instead of rationally thinking, Oh, I made a mistake. That was the wrong decision. They think maybe I just didn't do it. Right. And let me go try that again. And they become serially doing it.

Jessica: Right. It's it's,

Sean: it's really similar to drug addiction.

Jessica: Yeah. Yes. Well, and the, the two same, two things could happen. You can get the rush, but it's still not be like you had hoped it would. And so. The massive amounts of guilt can override that [00:24:00] rush instantly. Well, and we

Sean: also know about the cycle that happens where you do something and you feel shame over it, but to cover up that shame, you go and do it again to get that rush, to cover up the shame, then you feel more shame, which drives you to do it again.

Jessica: Yeah. So there's a really good broad example. An explanation of what is an affair, how do they happen? And there's many, many other reasons. Every person has their own reasons for why they did it.

Sean: And that's just what I was going to say. The reason is going to be different almost every time person to person.

The common thing I wanted to mention here was that no matter what, the reason it's, it's not. So it's how do I put this? It's because there's some other underlying problem. And there's a healthy way to deal with that problem. But if you were having an affair, you have [00:25:00] chosen to deal with it in an unhealthy way, though.

It might feel like an instant gratification and you might feel like you're getting what you need out of it. You're dealing with it in an unhealthy way, and it's going to cause hurt for everyone around you, including yourself.

Jessica: Right? So just to recap, the last few things that we've said, an affair is a connection with someone.

Outside of your marriage that you should be having only with your spouse. And there are many reasons why people have affairs, but underlying it's always not attending to the marriage and the relationship, the way that you should and dodging the problem. Most

Sean: definitely

Jessica: what now the affairs happened.

Okay. And you both are having to face it, head on like a train wreck. We've got a couple of weeks before we're able to cover every single topic, but for the [00:26:00] time being, if you're still struggling and if you're still just barely hanging on, there are some things that you can do. We're going to talk a little bit about things that you guys need to start thinking about and start maybe writing about or talking about.

But before we do that, I do want to call myself out here because I think it's very evident that Sean and I are not like on our top game on this one. I'm not this one's hitting home for me a lot. And it's really, really hard.

And the number one thing that I want to get across to you guys in this episode is that. No matter how hopeless you feel, no matter how much you feel like this is the end, no matter how much pain you're going through, no matter how much you feel like this [00:27:00] is never going to get better. I want you to know it will.

And I want you to know that you can heal and that there is hope. And this doesn't mean the end. I promise you if you both put the work in, it does not mean the end.

Sean: It has to be both of you putting the work in

Jessica: exactly.

One of the things that I was told by someone when I was going through some of my hardest times with Sean was, she said to me, she said, girl, you got to focus on yourself because if you don't focus on yourself, you're going to lose yourself in him. Once you start focusing on you. Once you start doing what you need to do for you, making yourself happy, healing yourself, he's got two options.

He's either going to follow [00:28:00] or he's going to fall behind. No, I remember that. And that was my wake-up call. I don't know why. And I don't know how, but that was it for me. And then I kept thinking, well, what happens if he falls behind? I don't want him to fall behind. And she just kept reiterating, you're going to lose yourself in him.

Don't do it. And so I started my change and I started my journey and he wasn't in it fully and he fell behind and I started to grow. And next thing I knew it was like he was running a marathon, trying to catch up to me,

Sean: amen to that.

Jessica: And he almost lost me in the dust. It was pretty close because I started to come to a place where I was happier and I was [00:29:00] healthier.

And though I wasn't completely healed. And though I wasn't okay with what had happened. I was starting to grow as a person and starting to realize my possibilities and my opportunities and that my life didn't end with him.

And I think that was absolutely the turning point for me.

Sean: And I think that seeing how much growth she had, how much growth she had made. And, you know, it forces you to take a look at yourself and what you're doing. And there is definitely something to be said for, uh, leading by example. You know, I experienced that in my career and my job all the time and someone who, you know, told me when I first started in the career, I'm in a lead and people will [00:30:00] follow you.

Yeah, you can be a follower, but if you lead people fall in line behind you. So one other thing I want to say to piggyback on what Jessica was saying about hope. And so I think the first thing, the first thing you need to do, if you're, if you're the one who's been cheated on, or if you're the one who's done, the cheating don't make any decisions right away, don't decide anything in, in the shock and the emotion of the moment.

That doesn't mean you need to act like everything's fine, but take some time and do it by yourself and, and think long and hard and try to remove yourself from the situation and subjective and the emotion, the intense emotion of it. And think if the marriage is something you really want to continue,

Jessica: right.

Sean: Or if it's too much, or if it's, you know, Make sure you want to be there because I, again, you know, we try to keep it lighthearted around here, but I don't know how we can with this topic, but it [00:31:00] is going to be, it'd be a long, hard road for both of you

Jessica: for

Sean: both of you. And the messed up thing is it's going to be harder emotionally for the person that was cheated on, but it's going to be a lot more work for the person who did it.

Because there's a whole slew of, from earning back trust, to getting to the bottom of why it happened to account a bit. And we'll get into a lot of that later, but you know, if you're the one who's been cheated on, you need to know that it wasn't anything that it wasn't any shortcomings on your part. Like it could be, you're not doing your work in the marriage in some spots, you know, but it's not because you're a terrible person or you're shitty, or you don't deserve to have someone love and respect you.

It's none of those things. And even though you're hurting so intensely, [00:32:00] just remember it. If you've committed to someone to spend your life with them and you have a family and a life together, that's not something that should be easily thrown to the side. Um, and on the reverse side of that, if you're the one who's had an affair or are having an affair, you need to know that the feelings you're feeling right now about this other person there it's, it's not going to be like that for the rest of your life.

And you're probably fooling yourself thinking that this person's going to be as good of a match or a better match for you than the person that you've already agreed to spend your life with. It's it's. A lot of dopamine and instant gratification and lust, and what's limerence I think is what they call it, all of that going on right now.

It's it's when you get into the, so if you do leave your spouse for them and you end up in a relationship with them, chances are four or five, six months from now. It's not going to feel the same as it [00:33:00] does right now. Not by a long shot. Whereas your partner you're with them or you married them for a reason.

Probably a lot of reasons.

Jessica: Yeah. So when Sean started talking, he had mentioned that you don't have to make a decision today. So know that the choice, the decision, the life altering change doesn't have to happen today. You don't have to know what it is today. Maybe tomorrow, maybe in a month, maybe in a week, maybe in a year from now.

You'll know. But don't force yourself into a decision until, you know, in your heart, mind, body, and soul. That that is what you want, whichever way you decide to go, whether it's you decide to leave where you decide to stay. It's okay to not know right now. It's okay to want to wait until you have more figured out it's [00:34:00] okay for you to want to know more information or.

See how you feel in a couple of weeks or a couple months, you do not have to make the choice right now. People will pressure. You they'll pressure you because they care about you because they don't want to see you hurting because often people believe that if you leave. It's going to be so much better.

You're not going to hurt as much and people don't want to see you her. You don't need to answer the question. Are you going to say, well, if I were you I'd leave. I don't know how you could stay. I wouldn't stay. If my spouse did something, don't pay any attention. They're not you. They're not your spouse.

They weren't in this situation. It's not their marriage. It's not their life. It's not their home. It's not their future. It's yours. Don't let anybody. Persuade you or pressure you into making any choices right now? It's okay to just say, I don't know yet, but thanks for asking

Sean: because the [00:35:00] ramifications, no matter what decision you make are going to be immense on either side of how you can go.

So it's not something that should be rushed into. Especially with all the complicated emotions, both of you are going to be feeling in the beginning.

Jessica: Right. And there's definitely going to be similar coasters of emotions. So it's okay to not know right now. So before I jump into talking with other people about this, I want to say one other thing.

So Sean and I did an interview Friday night with this. Other woman who does podcasting

Sean: other woman affairs.

Jessica: All right. Now I just, I don't want to say her name because we're not supposed

Sean: to another podcast and it was really cool.

Jessica: Um, thank you for finding my words, because a woman, the other woman is [00:36:00] like our live video yesterday.

When you tried to cover up your wedding ring because you were going to the club and Oh God,

Sean: watch our live video. If you want to get that clarified the hell is Sean doing with a band-aid?

Jessica: Oh my gosh. Wounds, bleeding wounds everywhere. So

Sean: bloody mess.

Jessica: She, she asked me if she, she wanted to know our story and we told her our story.

And she, four days she was dumbfounded. She was just like, wow, wow, you guys. And she looked at me and she said, pretty much so why'd you stay? And I said, I stayed because even though Sean wasn't keeping his promises to me, I was going to keep my promises and my vows to him. So. It's okay to be the person carrying the marriage for a little bit.

It's okay. To be the only one who [00:37:00] cares enough to hold it all together. It's okay to be the only one and feel lonely. And like, you've got this whole weight, this marriage that you're carrying on the show on your shoulders by yourself. It's okay to do that for a little while. And in a lot of my episodes, I talk about how there's going to be times though, this is much more tragic than most of them, where one person is going to be carrying more weight in the marriage than the other.

This just so happens to be one of those times that if you're willing and ready and able, and you want to be the one it's okay to be the one for a little bit. I was so with that said, I want to go back to other people because that is a huge mistake. Sean and I made. And I can't say it clearly enough. So I love my family and they're amazing supportive people, but when it [00:38:00] comes to things like this, family and friends are not the ones to go to because they become very biased and they become very protective and they, they.

They quickly can change towards your spouse and should your marriage workout. You don't want that on their minds because it is almost impossible for it to ever go away. It's it's going to just stick with them and it's human behavior. You can't get mad at them. You can't blame them, but it's going to, and sometimes it'll ruin those relationships enough that your spouse.

And your family member or your family members will never be able to be around each other again. So if you have nobody to talk to and you absolutely need someone, then look for one person that you can trust that you know is going to keep you safe secrets to talk to. [00:39:00] But by all means, if family or friends ask you what's wrong or what's going on.

You do not owe them an answer. All you have to say is I'm going through a really hard time right now, and it's personal. I don't want to talk about it, but I'm okay. And call that one person that you have your connection with and only talk to them. The other thing that I wanted to touch on is this is so common.

Often we want to. Reach out the one that they had an affair with for whatever reason, either to kick their ass or to give them a piece of our thoughts or just to ask more questions, do not do it, hold your dignity, hold your pride. Do not reach out to them because you're not going to get what you want out of it.

And that's going to leave you feeling [00:40:00] so much worse. Whether it's they decide to lie to your face or they decide to be manipulative and cruel and tell you lies and make it seem worse than it was, or I, I, there's 1,000,001 reasons why it's a bad idea. So do not do not do it. People ask all the time, I want to write a letter to the airfare partner.

I want to call them. I want to text them. Do not do it. Don't do it. The other one that kind of plays into that. And this is we're going to go much deeper into this. When we talk about healing after your spouse has had an affair between now and then in case someone is considering it do not seek revenge, some people might be wondering, what the heck are you talking about?

While others, most people are going to be like, yeah. So what do you have in mind? Give me some good [00:41:00] ideas. I'm not going to do that because that's one of the most common things someone wants to do when their partner has had an affair. A few reasons for this is, is they need to feel like they're worthy.

They need to feel like they're wanted, they need validation. That they're good enough. They're pretty enough. They're sexy enough. That they could find someone else should their marriage end. There is a slew of reasons why someone who has been cheated on will want to seek revenge and an affair of their own do not do it.

So this is, is where we get into Jessica, not being the most perfect person in the room. When we went, we're going through the worst of it. And I was discovering all these things. I felt like shit on my husband's shoe. I felt like I had no value. I felt like I wasn't good enough for anything or anybody. I felt like I was disgusting and [00:42:00] gross and ugly, and I could go on to the self-pity that I was feeling, but I felt like shit and shit actually seemed pretty good compared to how I felt.

And as a human being. Our number one need, just like we need water, just like we need food. Just like we need air. We need to be loved. We as human beings need to feel wanted and needed. And when the person that we give our all to pretty much slaps us in the face and tells us that we weren't good enough, even though I reassure you, that's not what it's about, but in that moment, that's how it feels.

We need to somehow seek validation. So as I went on the whole other tangent, that's where I was. So I wasn't in a place where I was seeking attention and seeking that [00:43:00] validation from someone else. And it never got sexual, but just the pure. Idea. Just the pure act of seeking that kind of attention from another man never settled right with me.

It never felt right with me. And I would have this tug of war on myself of, well, he did this and this to me, so I should be able to do this and this. And, but then, Oh, it doesn't feel right to me. And. It's actually making me hurt more and making me feel worse about everything. And it's not doing for me what I wanted it to do.

And I was just that continuous back and forth of, but I want to feel loved and I want to feel wanted, but it feels wrong and it doesn't feel right to me. Well, why shouldn't it because your husband doesn't want to give it to you. [00:44:00] So get it somewhere else. Don't allow yourself to go down that road. Because you're going to make the healing for you take longer.

And then you're going to have your own mishaps to have to deal with. And you don't need that in addition to everything else. So stay away from the revenge seeking behavior because from one person to another, I can tell you right now, it only digs you in deeper. So. The next thing is not to let your kids in on any of it.

You do not need to let the children carry that burden. And we'll go much more into this in the other episodes, but just know for right now it hurts them a lot too. And sometimes they even wonder if it's their fault and it's almost like the children feel like they were cheated on too. So we're going to talk about that in the following episode, but for the time being.

Do not let your kids in on it. [00:45:00] If you start crying, go to the bathroom. If they ask what's wrong, just say you're sad today. I don't know. You're not feeling well. Um, yours you're upset about something or I really don't know what you would say and what would be normal for you. So have your go-to line ready about what is going on with you to be able to answer to your children.

Sean: They're not your friends, they're your kids. And they shouldn't be your confident when it comes to things that involve their other parents.

Jessica: Exactly. And we'll talk more about if you should ever tell your children that your partner had an affair. So we'll talk about that in the other episodes. No, also that PTSD depression feeling like you're going completely bat shit crazy.

Your world flipped upside down anxiety. These are all very, very normal feelings. When you have discovered that your spouse is having an affair, so please don't freak out about it. I know some people it's worse [00:46:00] than others. Um, it just really kind of depends on the person, the severity of it, how you found out there's a whole bunch of reasons why one would be worse than the other, or someone would have fillings and another wouldn't.

So just know that if you are experiencing that, you're going to be okay. Try some meditation and some deep breathing. Focus, pray, do whatever you have to do to get through those moments. But again, we will talk much more in depth about that. Uh, next week, as we prepare you for the upcoming episodes, I want you to both be thinking about having a serious conversation with one another.

You don't need to have it yet. We're going to talk more about that in the other episodes, but I want you to start thinking about. How you're going to approach this conversation, what it is that you want start writing about it, both of you start thinking about it, because one of the things that you both are going to have to [00:47:00] do is have clear understanding of what your next steps are.

That doesn't mean we're getting a divorce. That doesn't mean we're staying together. What I mean in clear cut decisions is are you guys going to start working on it and see. If you can repair the marriage, see if you both can put in the work. And if so, what does that look like? Err, is the, is your spouse going to stop seeing the affair partner?

Are they going to continue seeing them? What is it that they want? What is it that you want? All these things you need to start thinking about? So you can prepare yourself for that conversation because we're going to walk you through that and the other and the other episodes. So just. Have that in the back of your mind and start thinking about it.

I want you to also know that we don't have to stand by what society tells us, and I'm telling you this because [00:48:00] there are a lot of people who are going to say your spouse needs to stop seeing the fair partner right now, if you're going to stay. And while I will hands down, agree with that. I will also say that there are people who would say I'm okay with them seeing the airfare partner for right now.

I may not be okay with it in a couple of weeks from now, or a couple of months from now or a year from now, but right now I'm going to be okay with it. And I, I wouldn't say okay with it, I'm going to tolerate it. And I'm not going to ask them to stop because my marriage means more to me and I am willing to fight for my marriage.

If they don't want to leave the affair partner and they don't want to leave the marriage, I'm going to stay in the marriage in that situation. And I'm going to work through that. I'm one of those people who I wouldn't do it every time and I wouldn't do it for everybody, but that's definitely what I did with Sean.

With a lot of things he did was I accepted and [00:49:00] I came to. Uh, an agreement with myself that this is how it is, and this is who he is right now. And for right now, I'm going to be quote unquote, okay. With it. I am going to accept it right now. Whether I accept it later is a whole other story right now. I'm going to walk through this with him and I'm going to love him through this.

And I'm going to stick by him through this for right now. So know that you have options like that. It's not just, they have to stop seeing, or you're gone. Unless that's truly what your heart and soul are telling you then. Yes, of course, those are your boundaries and those are okay to have too. So the other thing that you guys are going to, well, not you guys, uh, the one who had the affair, you need to start thinking about is when we start talking to you about your healing, I want you to start thinking about disclosure, and I want you to start thinking about how you want to [00:50:00] have that conversation.

And I'm talking about complete disclosure, because if you're going to do this with your spouse and you're going to make this right, you're going to have to say all of it. And I mean, all of it, and I know it's scary and I know it's hard and we're going to walk you through on how to do that in the following episode, not the next one, but the one after, when we talk about healing, when you have had an affair, Again, something for you to start thinking about, to start processing, to start digesting and start getting yourself ready for

Sean: get in a place of honesty, because like everything else in your marriage, getting through an affair and healing through this is going to have to start with a foundation of complete and utter honesty.

Jessica: Yeah. There's no other way you can do it. And don't think that you're going to be able to hide one or two things and be able to do this. I'm telling you it's not going to work, but again, we're going to talk about that later. So [00:51:00] start digesting that piece of information and start coming to terms with it.

So for the one, yeah. Who has been cheated on don't become an investigator. Just don't become Dr. Spy. You don't want to do

Sean: it. Dr. Spy,

Jessica: Dr. Spy. I don't know that character. Don't become an investigator. I know

Sean: how a medical doctor,

Jessica: I guess. No, I don't know. That's just doctor's buffet. It just sounded, I don't know.

Don't don't get caught into that wheelhouse and it'll never end. And then you're going to find things that look like something, and it's not something. And then you're gonna miss something that is something. And then you're gonna, Oh, it's a disaster. Do not become an investigator, but go ahead.

Sean: Don't become an investigator, but your spouse or your partner [00:52:00] that did the cheating needs to start becoming accountable and transparent in everything.

Yes. You should, if you're the one who did, did the cheating, you should be making it so that they don't have to investigate anything that everything's out there in the open. Right. Just saying

Jessica: exactly. Start thinking about if, uh, there's going to be a separation or time apart and what you want that to look like.

Again, we're not making any decisions today. These are things for you to just kind of start thinking about some people stay in the home. Some people separate, some people sleep in different rooms. It's whatever works for you. So start thinking about that for the both of you. What do you want that to look like?

Uh, triggers are a big one, especially for the one that's been cheated on, but even the one who has had the affair start getting to know your triggers, start writing them down, start becoming familiar with them. We're going to talk more about them in the following episodes, but I want [00:53:00] you to start paying attention to those because triggers.

Are a huge focus point when you're healing and understanding those triggers and how you get triggered and what to do with those triggers. So the first step is logging your triggers when they happened, what happened, why they happened? What were the feelings? What, what, uh, what physical, emotional, spiritual, mental things happen to you?

Identifying all that. Cause you're going to need that information as we move forward in your, your healing process.

Sean: And as you're going to see, it'll become really clear through the next two episodes that triggers what causes them, how they make you feel and how you and your partner deal with them and accountability and what your is willing to do to make themselves accountable.

Those are going to be the two biggest factors in healing, right?

Jessica: Which leads me to [00:54:00] asking your partner questions about the affair. I really encourage you to stay away from that right now. One of the things, things that I'm going to be walking you through is asking yourself, do I really need to know this?

Do I want to know? And how will this heal me? Or will it hurt me? And so I'm going to give you some tools and some tips on when to ask questions. But I do want to preface it this with, if you need to ask, if you have to ask, even if you asked a hundred times before the exact same question, then you ask, because that is one of the ways that people heal.

Do not let your partner tell you. You've already asked me that we've been over this. I've already told you I've been through this with you explicitly. If you need to [00:55:00] ask, and it's the hundredth and hundred and 20th time you've asked, then you ask, do not let them bully you into not answering you. And again, we're going to go into detail in both the episodes on how to ask.

When to ask and your partner on how to respond and what the healthy decisions you're going to have to make there is. So those are some tips and tools for right now. That was a lot. That was a lot

Sean: heavy episode.

Jessica: Tell me about it. So

Sean: listen, folks, this like any other topic that we talk about on the confident marriage?

We talk about things we talk about because we've been there and we've done that, and we've both experienced both sides of this to one degree or another. So we're speaking from true personal experience. We're not just shooting shit out of it.

Jessica: No, no. So we've had extensive amounts of training [00:56:00] and, um, Several books that we've read programs, we've attended therapies that therapists that we've been to.

I mean, you name it, we've done it. And we truly have really selected the things that truly do work. There's so much

Sean: fluff,

Jessica: fluff. There's so much fluff out there. There's

Sean: fluff on this show.

Jessica: Oh my gosh, hands down, one

Sean: minute comfort or something.

Jessica: Oh my gosh. I love our down comforter.

Sean: All my cats.

Jessica: He's a cat guy.

Sean: I love

Jessica: cats. There's so much work out there. There's so much like feeling there there's stuff out there. I mean, just so many people make so many promises and have all these things that seem like great ideas. And we spend all this time and money and energy into these programs. Therapist books suck. You're spinning your wheels.

How did that [00:57:00] for Sean and I have really, really narrowed down some of the things that really have worked scientific based, uh, psychologists and behaviors. Stand by it. And we stand by them because they have worked for us after trying one thing after another, after another, after another, that didn't work.

So that's where we're coming to you and sharing those things with you that we've discovered are truly just the nails on the head. Not just little things here and there. Not just things to make it feel better or seem better, but they are okay. The nail on the head, in these things.

Sean: A lot of it trial and error and research, research, research, and practice, you know, practicality of doing these things and speaking to a lot of other couples that have been through it.

So not to say we know everything by any means or that we have all the answers, but I can promise you that [00:58:00] what we're bringing to you will work if you're both willing to put in the effort.

Jessica: Yeah. I guess you could say we were your Guinea pigs, but we're happy to be if it helps you so

Sean: sexy Guinea pig,

Jessica: this is sexy.

Guinea pig. I'm

Sean: looking at it right now.

Jessica: I don't even, you are a cat person. So you do like the furry. So I guess I'm your sexy Guinea pig tonight right now. Wow. This took a turn. And I think we will end it on that. No.

Sean: Should I go put on my tiger King outfit?

Jessica: Oh my gosh. He's somebody on Instagram actually was a tiger King and they actually pulled it off really,

Sean: really well, as good as I could.

Jessica: He ended up not wearing his costume is Halloween. So

Sean: I don't know if I want to pull that off. Well,

Jessica: we didn't even finish watching that series cause we were kind of [00:59:00] act out by it. We couldn't, we couldn't do it. Like there was just. So much going on. I think my final Shaw was when someone had their army or something.

I don't know.

Sean: We made it a little bit past that. That wasn't the weirdest thing we'd go to

Jessica: now. But anyways, my tiger King.

Sean: Hmm.

Jessica: Does that

Sean: make you Carol Baskin?

Jessica: Oh my gosh.

Sean: Let's hope

Jessica: not. You're just full of compliments this evening. My dear so much. I'm a sexy of Guinea pig and I'm Carol Baskin. So. I'm going to wear a Guinea pig and laugh and talk like Carol Baskin.

You're going to wear a

Sean: Guinea pig.

Jessica: No,

Sean: I want you to wear nothing but a Guinea pig.

Jessica: So disturbed right now.

Sean: We've got to close the show out.

Jessica: All right. Thank you all for listening.

Sean: I wish I knew what sounded Guinea pig made. I'd make it right now.

Jessica: What does the Guinea pig say, [01:00:00] Hey,

don't forget to subscribe. Until the podcast and rate and follow us. I, I can't even end the show right now. Thank you, Sean.

Sean: Goodness. Follow us on Facebook at the confident marriage, Twitter at the sea marriage show and Instagram at confident marriage, plus be looking out for our live videos. What do we do that on Facebook or Instagram?

We're

Jessica: going to switch them up either or so follow us on both.

Sean: All right. So just stay. Connected and FA I don't know how social media works, but if you see us do a live video, join in, we'll answer your questions live.

Jessica: Yeah. We totally love acting with you

Sean: guys. We were in the tiger King outfit.

Jessica: He will not be wearing, I can't say that cause he just might do it.

Oh yeah. He's got the look in his eyes.

Sean: Thank you for joining us for a somber episode of the confident marriage. Listen, we know this episode, wasn't like all fun and giggles and everything, but really, really [01:01:00] important topic. And. We hope you all enjoyed our show and got some useful information in the children is next week.

Jessica: Absolutely. This is the confident marriage podcast. Thank you all for joining us.

Sean: She's your sexy Guinea pig post posts.

Jessica: I am your Guinea pig, host Jessica. And I'm

Sean: your tugger King, Sean.

Jessica: Wow. Have a good evening.

Sean: Oh my God. You're still recording.

Jessica: Yes.